205 00:28:09:06 00:28:15:24 But there are much more serious allegations against
Sai Baba, accusations of sexual molestation.
206 00:28:16:02 00:28:21:13 The guru is known for daily selecting disciples
to take to a so-called interview.
207 00:28:21:16 00:28:24:08 The interviews take place alone in a room with Sai
Baba -
208 00:28:24:11 00:28:30:02 - and are regarded as something of the highest one
can achieve.
209 00:28:30:05 00:28:35:00 The accusers say that Sai Baba has molested his
disciples sexually during these interviews.
210 00:28:35:03 00:28:39:18 It involves young men and boys, including minors.
211 00:28:39:21 00:28:43:24 Sai Baba and his organisation have so far rejected
all allegations.
212 00 28:44:02 00:28:49:06 They characterize the allegations as an evil campaign
based on second-hand rumours.
213 00:28:49:09 00:28:55:07 Danish Radio has spoken to a number of ex-disciples
who have been molested.
("SAM" former alias for Alaya Rahm) One time he had his robe almost
completely off and he tried to have anal sex with me, because he came from behind
me and started climbing up on top of me, you know, and being that I'm so much
taller than him, in order to keep prevent it from happening, I just stood straight
up and didn't allow him to do anything, you know, and I kind of kept pushing
him away and keep him there until ??... I know, I want to talk to you, I want
to be with you and I love you. He said, "You don't love me? You don't love
me?" And I would say, "No, I love you, but I just don't want to have
sexual relations with you."
214 00:29:32:00 00:29:36:07 The boy and his family were showered with jewels
and watches.
215 00:29:36:10 00:29:41:05 The family wishes to remain anonymous because they
fear the reactions of Sai Baba`s followers.
216 00:29:41:08 00:29:46:21 Today they live in the US Midwest. The father was
one of the leaders in the American Sai movement -
217 00:29:46:24 00:29:53:22 But he broke with the organisation when he discovered
the molesting. This is the first time they give their accounts on TV.
("SAM"s father - Al Rahn) We were shocked when we heard it and the
both of us just embraced our son at that time and we said, "That's it.
It's over. It's finished." And the thing that was most impactful there,
was that when we said to him, "Why didn't you tell us?", and he said,
"The greatest fear that I had was that my family would choose SB and I
would lose my family." And that he had lived with that fear. And he said,
"and that I would be responsible for possibly bringing down an organisation
as big as this."
("SAM") The first time I had a personal experience with SB was when
I was 16 years old. I went to India alone with some friends in a USA group.
I think I was the only person in that group that he gave a personal interview
to. I went in there, and he motioned for me to lower my pants. And I did. I
was very nervous at the time, yeah. And he waved his hand and turned it over
and showed me some oil. And he started to rub it on my testicles and started
kissing me. And as he was kissing me, he started kissing me deeply, you know.
And I started tensing up and, you know, not understanding what was happening.
But it seemed to me as if SB was trying to make my penis erect.
SAM'S FATHER He had told me not to tell anybody about what he had done, that
people wouldn't understand it.
218 00:31:46:24 oo:31:49:21
(COMMENTATOR) the molestations went on for several years.
("SAM") The second time that I went to see SB was in 1997. I went
with my whole family and a group of people. I believe we had about 10 people
in our group. I don't remember exactly what happened that first day, but I know
that there was physical contact in the personal interview room. I ended up getting
about 20 to 21 personal interviews within a month and a half. Then he at one
time gave me a watch and I wore it for about a week. And after about the first
week of wearing it, the gold started to fade off of the inside and around the
sides and I felt it to be kind of strange, because I felt it was like a token
of love or a spiritual gift or some sort of a … something special, and
it was just already … it was really cheap, I could tell. The second hand
was sometimes moving in different directions, and the gold left and so I asked
him in an interview, you know, why it was changing colours and he almost got
upset with me for asking a question like that, you know. And he told me then,
"I'm going to give you a solid gold watch." And so he made another
watch for me. It was solid gold. At the time it looked very gold on the front
and the back. And about a week later it was all faded off. It didn't work very
well for very long. But every time we would go back into the personal room,
his wants got to be very intimate. And he was constantly having me take out
my penis and he would hold it, sometimes put it in his mouth and look at me,
and then ask me to do the same thing or push my head down and lift his robe
up. And I was gagging and almost about to vomit. And, you know, that was probably
the most mentally break down type of thing I've ever done in my life, because
if I didn't feel like at that time, like my life or my family's happiness or
… was depending on it, I wouldn't have done it. But my mentality at that
time … I felt like it was a life or almost death situation. You know, this
was God in human form, but that was my mental program - this is God in human
form. How could I deny him what he was trying to make me do? There must be some
deeper reason or deeper meaning that what I see."
219 00:34:33:13 00:34:37:18 Sai Baba threatened the boy by saying that his family
would not get any more interviews -
220 00:34:37:21 00:34:41:10 If he revealed anything to his parents.
(SAM) But there were several occasions that really made it snap in my mind that
it was no longer even possibly a spiritual experience. I was constantly feeling
the pressures of the thousands and thousands of people outside the room that
all wanted to be in the position that I was in, and who every day almost treated
me with anger or resent, you know, because I got so much attention from SB.
My feeling, however, was, if you guys only knew what was actually going on back
there, you wouldn't even want to be in my shoes, because it's not very funny.
221 00:35:20:12 00:35:24:04 This family was far from being the only one who
can tell of sexual abuse.
222 00:35:24:07 00:35:29:04 The police in USA, Germany and France have received
formal charges from ex-disciples.
223 00:35:29:07 00:35:33:12 Twenty reports were deposited with the Indian authorities
in March 2001.
224 00:35:33:15 00:35:38:04 The court in India has still not decided how it
will deal with the formal charges.
225 00:35:38:07 00:35:45:06 One of the accusers lives in Boston. His mother
is a fervent follower of Baba, and he was too for six years.
(JED GEYERHAHN) In 1989 when I was 15 years old I went to India for three weeks.
And on that trip I had four interviews. And in the third interview he actually
asked me to untie my pants. And he forcibly pulled my pants down and with his
bare hand grabbed my groin and rubbed some oil on the side of my scrotum. And
I went again on the following year, and on that trip when I was 16 years old,
SB called me again for a private interview. At that point I was even actually
more uncomfortable because it seemed like this had already taken place, there
is no reason why it needed to take place again. But he asked me to take my pants
down. I did and he went on and produced an oily substance and rubbed it on the
side of my scrotum.
226 00:36:34:10 00:36:38:15 According to Jed Geyerhahn, he is far from being
the only one.
(JED GEYERHAHN) I have talked with students at SB's school and they have had
sexual relationships with SB. And it's really common knowledge that several
students stay with SB all night on an ongoing basis. And of course nobody talks
about what takes place with these students with SB, but from the students I've
talked to (it's) clear that there are sexual relationships taking place. And
in fact one student I talked to directly was a person that was staying with
SB. And from the conversation it was clear that it was very difficult for him
to come forward with this information, because he'd be rejected by his family
and by his culture and by his people, unlike American students who have the
support of their culture and society and family. They come forward and talk
about the fact that they have been mistreated by SB.
("SAM") What really helped me was when I had some conversations with
some other people who had had similar experienes. Because I felt, that if they
had had experiences as intense, or close to as intense as mine, I could talk
to them about it more openly than I could talk to my dad. So we had talked about
it, and all the people that I had talked about it were equally confused about
it as I was. However, also equally brainwashed and allowing it to continue to
take place. So I would say that finally I decided that I was not going to put
myself into that position again, because life without SB was going to be a better
life."
227 00:38:26:03 00:38:29:06 When his son at last told him what was going on
-
228 00:38:29:09 00:38:34:18 - the father broke all connection with Sai Baba
and resigned as leader of a part of the movement in America.
(SAM'S FATHER) I could see the manipulation that had been done. The threats,
the pressure, the intense responsibility to bring this boy along, to keep him
around for seven years as Baba's plaything.
229 00:38:53:16 00:38:58:13 The father says that he complained to the highest
leader in the organisation in the USA.
(SAM'S FATHER) We told him every single detail. And honestly, I would say that
he was genuinely shaken. He made comments like, "Faith has to be restored.
Words will not be enough. I hate to think that 25 years of my life had been
for nothing, had been a waste. We MUST talk to Baba about this." And he
asked us, "Please, please, do not tell anyone about this until we've had
a chance to talk to Baba." He said, "I will go, I will be there for
his birthday." He was called in and he specifically adressed the situation
with our family. Baba was very clear exactly which family it was. He said, "Baba,
I need to talk to you about inappropriate action that this family says you've
had with their son." Baba's response was: "Swami is pure." The
next day Baba gave his big birthday discourse, and in that discourse he praised
this individual, that man who is the head of the organisation, more than he
had ever praised anyone else before, saying what an incredible devotee he was,
and all that he had done. And a friend of mine who had videotaped it and had
it, was approached afterwards by this man. He said, "Oh, did you get that
on tape?" He said, "It was the peak of my life." So when he returned
and he called me, he said, "I've done what I said I would do. I've kept
my word. I spoke to Baba. Baba's response is: 'Swami is pure,' and he said that
you would return." And he said, "My heart and my mind are on Swami.
You have to do whatever you have to do." And I just ... I felt that he
just couldn't face it.